A firm believer in the Ganga Jamuni Tehzeeb (syncretic culture), Rana Safvi, 67, has been researching and documenting India’s rich cultural heritage, sharing her knowledge through books, articles, blogs, podcasts, and videos. She holds a master’s degree in medieval history from the Centre for Advanced Studies, Department of History, Aligarh Muslim University. She has written many books so far and translated a few on India's culture, history, and monuments.

　　In 2011, she started the Twitter forum #shair, which was responsible for popularizing Urdu online. It's a unique platform that is still going strong, with over 30,000 members, said Safvi.

　　Here is an interview with the woman who refuses to let age come in the way of her explorations. “In my case, my love for monuments is the reason that I am willing to climb every mountain and swim every ocean during my explorations,” says Safvi.

　　In "A Saint, A Folk Tale and Other Stories," (2021) you have focused on lesser-known monuments of India. Why did you think it was necessary to uphold these lesser-known monuments?

　　India is a vast country with an ancient history. The most important contemporary sources for ancient history are archaeological sites related to the Indus Valley Civilization, rock-cut caves and temples, and the edicts of Asoka, etc. Built heritage is thus essential in supplementing written sources. Some monuments are less visible than others, but that does not mean they are less important than our history and heritage sources. We all know about the Taj Mahal but not the Aahukhana (deer park) in Burhanpur, where Mumtaz Mahal was given her first temporary burial before her coffin was moved to Agra. Burhanpur was the capital of a Mughal subah and a significant city, as it was the entrance point to the Deccan. It has several important monuments, which I have described.

　　Monuments are also repositories of oral and community history which is something I have tried to capture in the stories in my book.

　　Please tell us how you shortlisted the monuments and gathered information about them. How long did it take you to complete this book?

　　From 2016 to 2019, I traveled extensively to places off the beaten track in India. I used to make a note of "must visit" places and then plan accordingly. I tried to be as efficient as possible by mapping locations within one state and then visiting them. I would conduct my academic research beforehand so that I knew all the places I must visit in a particular area and the important elements of each monument. I took help from the gazetteers published by the ASI in the 19th and 20th centuries.

　　Once my travels were over, it took me a year to do my academic research and finish the book.

　　Do you photograph the monuments you visit? How difficult or easy is it to photograph them?

　　For me photography is a hobby. I use an iPhone as well as a DSLR to record my visits.

　　I take extensive photographs of each monument I visit. As I write about them much later, the photographs are an important resource for me to compare with written information. I also take videos describing my feelings at that moment to capture them on paper and retain the freshness of a first look.

　　There are specific difficulties in terms of physical limitations to access every nook and corner, given that I am 67 years old, but I try not to let that come in the way of my explorations. In my case, my love for monuments is the reason that I am willing to climb every mountain and swim in every ocean during my explorations.

　　There have been occasions when I have been stopped from photographing a monument, especially if it is an encroached monument that the current owners want to hide. I have stood my ground and refused to budge unless government authorities specifically forbid photography.

　　Are we, as a nation, negligent of our architectural heritage? Why are many of our ancient monuments in a decrepit state?

　　The ones under private ownership are mostly well looked after, but their character is changed in certain cases. It is the unlisted monuments that are suffering. A group of 15th-century tombs in Delhi’s Zamarudpur area are completely encroached upon, with one being used as a cattle shed and collection point for ragpickers, another for drying clothes, and the others being walled up. Only through persistence on my part could I photograph and document them.

　　Any anecdotes that you would like to share about the time you were researching and writing this book?

　　One of my most memorable moments was in Barabar Caves in Bihar. Barabar Caves are the earliest example of built heritage, with the appearance of the ogee arch on the Lomas Rishi cave. The Barabar group of granite hills was excavated on the orders of Emperor Asoka for the Ajivikas, an ascetic sect in the 3rd century BCE. The surface finish of the caves is unbelievable—I could see myself reflected in the walls. But that was not all. My ASI (Archaeological Survey of India) guide asked me to close my eyes when we entered the small, pitch-dark antechamber. Even though open eyes wouldn't have made a difference in the darkness, it allowed me to internalize the experience. Then he started chanting, "Buddham Sharanam Gachhami." I could feel the sound reverberating off the cave walls. I can't describe my feelings—I can only say that I was transported to a different world.

　　Among other things, the Ganga Jamuni Tehzeeb is your area of expertise. Can you tell us what that means? Why is it important? Has modern life affected this refined lifestyle?

　　From childhood, if one phrase stands out in my mind from my history lessons, it is "unity in diversity." This diversity came from years of migration to the fertile plains of India by people from different countries in Asia. The unity emerged from the coming together of various ethnic, cultural, and religious communities, resulting in "The Wonder that is India."

　　This concept of cultural pluralism is what is called "secular" in India. Indian secularism does not conform to the Western definition but implies respect for all religions, celebration of religious tolerance, and equality for all faiths. The way we refer to it as "sickular" shows how we misunderstand our own ancient traditions and ethos.

　　This is the unique syncretic culture of India called Ganga Jamuni Tehzeeb. In today’s world, where polarisation is growing and people doubt this, for me, it’s a lived reality.

　　We still eat gujiyas on Holi and play with colors, light lamps and eat sweets on Diwali, embrace and eat sewai on Eid, and hang a star on Christmas. This is our common heritage and cultural identity. The rest of the praying, fasting, etc., that goes on in our homes is our religious identity and should be kept private and personal, separate from our public life.

　　This is what I keep trying to promote through my writings, podcasts and videos. This is what we must all try to preserve.

　　You have been presenting the many sides of Delhi through your books. What is it that attracts you to Delhi?

　　Delhi was home to many dynasties, each leaving its own stamp. A romantic version has it that there were seven cities in Delhi. The absolute diversity and richness of the monuments here attracted me to become their chronicler and tell their stories. For me, monuments aren’t just bricks and stones but spaces where people lived, breathed, loved, betrayed, and died. That’s the story that compelled me to document them.

　　How would you like your readers to see your various books focused on monuments — as travel books, or as history books?

　　My books are a unique combination of both. I give the reader a glimpse into the past of each monument and city that I describe, recounting its history from contemporary and secondary sources and bringing it to the present, with exact instructions on how to reach there and what considerations to keep in mind while visiting.

　　Apart from Delhi, and excluding the monuments mentioned in your book on lesser-known monuments, have you written about other cities or historical places?

　　I used to write a fortnightly column for The Hindu from 2017 to 2019 titled "Where Stones Speak." A Saint, A Folk Tale and Other Stories result from those articles. Of course, I have included many new places and added much more information than an 800-word column could contain. I have also curated an app called Audio Odigos for Resbird. This was under the Monument Mitra scheme of the ASI, where I curated 12 historical monuments.

　　Apart from Delhi, which other historical city would you like to explore and write about?

　　The two cities that I would love to explore and write in detail about are Champaner in Gujarat and Gaur/Pandua in West Bengal.

　　If you were asked to rank the three best monuments in India (known or lesser-known) according to your choice, what would they be? Why?

　　My favourite is Fatehpur Sikri in Agra, followed by Firoz Shah Kotla in Delhi and Burhanpur in Madhya Pradesh. Fatehpur Sikri was the first place where I truly engaged with a historical monument. I was in my early teens, and I fell in love with the red stones. That love affair continues to this day and, hopefully, for the rest of my life.

　　Firoz Shah Kotla is not only a unique fort with an Ashokan pillar and a Tughlaq-era structure, but it is also home to jinn-saints whom people visit to make supplications. The mix of old and new fascinates me, and that place has a unique character.

　　And Burhanpur because it reminds me of life and death; there are many tombs there, representing dreams that died and things that could have been. It was a place where I shed a tear for the state of preservation of important relics. Burhanpur is a treasure house for those who love architecture, history, and heritage. But in its current state of preservation, I fear for it.

　　If you had to choose three favourites from A Saint, A Folk Tale and Other Stories, which ones would you choose?

　　That is difficult, but it would be the title story set in Thaneswar, along with The Kalinjar Fort and Burhanpur (once again).

　　Thaneswar (about 160 km north-west of Delhi) fascinated me with its play on words and how meanings change over the years. It reminded me of the story of Sheikh Chilli that I heard as a child, with its underlying message about the importance of simplicity in life. When I went there, I wasn’t disappointed. There was a sense of serenity that was precious.

　　The Kalinjar Fort (located in the Bundelkhand region of Uttar Pradesh) is majestic, and its ruins are impressive, but it is the two Shiva statues carved on the rocks that are breathtaking. While one is easily accessible, the other is quite hard to reach, and not many attempt it. I defied my physical abilities to do so, and though I suffered from aches and pains afterward, I would not have given up that opportunity and am ready to do it again.

　　I have already explained my fascination with Burhanpur. The people there have such a sense of loss for what could have been theirs had the Taj Mahal been built in Burhanpur instead of Agra.

　　Note: This interview has been republished and is from an earlier date.